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Re: [SIGMusic] Android on Tacchi



I have a few thoughts here, having messed with Mixxx a fair amount...

Mixxx is not terrible, but it is severely lacking in the quality of
some of its features (last time I used it, maybe a year and a half
ago).  For instance, its beat detection and sync is nowhere near as
good as Traktor, for instance (although it sucks way less hard that
VirtualDJ).  I would love to use mixxx as a base, although I don't
know how well/if at all it supports a beatgrid, which is one of the
main advantages Tacchi could bring.

As for hardware interfaces, they do have their place.  It is much
easier to move a physical crossfader, for instance, quickly and
precisely than a flat touch screen allows.  Furthermore, physical
knobs and such allow you to let one hand do something on its own by
feeling, rather than needing to divert your vision's attention as
well.  The most important benefit of a physical device, though, is
having motorized platters.  Hand-eye coordination is never going to be
as good as what one can do by following along with the record by
touch, and being able to let it slip, push it along, etc.  I'm not
sure this little quip is relevant, but I felt compelled to defend my
beloved hardware interfaces :-).

For my part, I think MIDI is kind of a pain in the ass, and it feels
very unintuitive to me; yet, pretty much everyone seems to be in love
with it, so maybe I'm just an outlier there.

I'd be very interested in making an interface that encompasses a
traditional crossfader/deck section, looper/sampler/beatgrid (probably
brand new interface for MT), and quantized drum kit.  We have a LOT of
screen real-estate to utilize, so it would be awesome to have all of
the general features of music at the foreground simultaneously, as
well as perhaps group them by stations, so each technique can be used
by a different person at the same time.

Also, don't forget that we have lots of opportunity from our firewire
I/O device, so we can take live instruments and microphones to do
whatever we want with.

Just my $0.02, and I'm glad to see people excited about this.  I'll be
in the back room Monday night, setting up some OS platforms for us to
experiment with--could be a good opportunity to further discuss this,
so show up if you can/want to/are interested.

--Alex

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:26 PM, David Hollander <dhllndr@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> RJ I think the main benefit to multitouch DJ app would not be reinventing
> the interface. All the commercial-style DJ apps already have pretty decent
> on screen interfaces. I think the external MIDI controller market ONLY
> exists because they can't directly touch the interface without using a
> mouse.
>
> The main benefit would be that the onscreen turntables are fully functional
> turntables. You won't have to plugin seperate turntables to manipulate the
> on screen representation of them, you simply scratch the tables on screen
> with your fingers.
>
> For really cool\unique interface stuff, one would want to pursue a music
> sequencing and synthesis project rather than DJing pre-existing songs. Where
> the itnerface is responsible for sequencing midi note events, and is a
> simple audio host for synthesizers plugins such as VST where people have
> already created thousands of pluggable instruments in or a more open format
> like LV2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LV2 or LADSPA
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LADSPA
>
> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:06 PM, RJ Marsan <rjmarsan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Thats a very legitimate thought.  I don't know the internal mechanics of
>> Mixxx, nor do I know how good it is. If anyone has any experience with it,
>> and can compare it with commercial apps.
>> What kind of an interface would we use to make it multitouch and unique?
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 7:18 PM, <dhllndr@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> If there is an open source DJ software you want to use, that presents yet
>>> another option: One could simply work with the project's current
>>> maintainers\commiters to port it to Android and provide an optional Android
>>> skin.
>>> -David
>>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2010 6:38pm, Marcell Vazquez-Chanlatte <vazque16@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey all, couldn't help but read that part about mixxx. I used to use
>>> > mixxx for vinyl emulation. Its open source and setting of the devices would
>>> > be np as long as you follow standard out types.
>>> > > Ah I thought Ardour was more for composing than DJing, I'll have to
>>> > > grab it
>>> > > on my ubuntu partition and actually test it. I think another free one
>>> > > I've
>>> > > heard of for Linux is "Mixxx" http://www.mixxx.org/ which could be
>>> > > worth
>>> >
>>> > > looking into.
>>> > >
>>> > > For a multitouch DJ interface that plugs into existing software, I
>>> > > know an
>>> > > expensive commercial one is JazzMutant Lemur:
>>> > > http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jazzmutant+lemur&aq=f
>>> > > could be
>>> >
>>> > > a good source of ideas on that front.
>>> > >
>>> > > -David
>>> > >
>>> > > On Sep 11, 2010 1:52am, RJ Marsan rjmarsan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > >> Ryan, sorry I forgot to mention. We've been looking into
>>> > >> Android-x86.
>>> >
>>> > >> Thats the port we're using to write the TUIO module. We discussed it
>>> > >> for
>>> > >> a while on this thread
>>> > >> http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/archives/sigmusic-l/msg00471.html.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> As for the project discussion,
>>> > >> Both of those examples are simple and interesting. The reason for
>>> > >> Android
>>> > >> is not for the web browser, but the point is its a fully featured
>>> >
>>> > >> operating system designed to be used without a keyboard. Its already
>>> > >> being adopted for larger surfaces than the phone, so the table is a
>>> > >> natural extension. It has a fair amount of libraries already built
>>> > >> in
>>> >
>>> > >> that are incredibly useful, however it was made for a phone in mind,
>>> > >> so
>>> > >> changes to it aren't terribly easy, but its FOSS.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> If you have any interest in those applications, we can nail down an
>>> > >> SDK
>>> >
>>> > >> for the table as soon as possible, and we can all start writing
>>> > >> stuff.
>>> > >> The experimental collaborative apps like those you posted are really
>>> > >> cool
>>> > >> and important, however we can't neglect the appeal of a multitouch
>>> > >> DJ app.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 9:14 PM, David Hollander dhllndr@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > >> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Android seems ideal if you want other tablet functionality such as
>>> >
>>> > >> Internet Browsing, however I am assume you would not be able to run
>>> > >> Ableton or Traktor and developing the interface as a plugin for
>>> > >> either.
>>> > >
>>> > >> However, that is not necessarily a bad thing at all. Because
>>> > >> emulating a
>>> >
>>> > >> DJ mixer would not be a very collaborative experience. If someone
>>> > >> examing
>>> > >> the display plays with the interface while someone is mixing, it's
>>> > >> more
>>> > >> likely that result would end up sounding worse as the turn off a
>>> > >> track or
>>> >
>>> > >> the mix drops out etc. DJ interface would not necessariyl take
>>> > >> advantage
>>> > >> of the collaborative potential of such a large flat screen...
>>> > >> perhaps a
>>> > >> massive Tenorion would be more collaborative?
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Here are some fun examples of this idea you can play around with:
>>> > >> http://wonderfl.net/c/vWpu
>>> > >> http://wonderfl.net/c/4WVb
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> http://wonderfl.net/c/qf4b
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> All are MIT license I believe.
>>> > >
>>> > >> Since the taachi is fairly widescreen in ratio, maybe it would
>>> > >> display
>>> >
>>> > >> 2-3 square music grids or instruments at a time. then at the bottom
>>> > >> or
>>> > >> top there would be a small ribbon where you could move your hand to
>>> > >> the
>>> > >> left or right to pan to new instruments (colored grid squares). So
>>> > >> you
>>> >
>>> > >> could collaborate on different isntrument tracks and edit at least 2
>>> > >> instruments simultaneously.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Another option could be to start with the Plasma-pong-esque graphics
>>> > >> you
>>> >
>>> > >> built as a base. When someone touches the screen it creates fluid
>>> > >> ripples
>>> > >> corresponding to a sine oscillator sound wave form that create new
>>> > >> sounds. When someone else touches the screen nearby and the ripples
>>> >
>>> > >> collide, the sine oscillators also combine and you can create
>>> > >> different
>>> > >> waveforms. For example a saw wave depending how many people are
>>> > >> touching
>>> > >> the screen at what distances apart.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Just some ideas.
>>> > >
>>> > >> -David
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Ryan Teel teelrc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> I did some looking around and found an open source android for x86
>>> > >> project.
>>> > >> http://www.android-x86.org/
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> I took a look at their multitouch compatability, and it seems like
>>> > >> they
>>> > >> already have a layer of abstraction set up. It looks like would just
>>> > >> need
>>> > >> to write a plugin for the way we do touch inputs. It's definitely
>>> > >> worth
>>> >
>>> > >> looking into.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> -Ryan
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >
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>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >> SIGMusic-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > >
>>> > >> https://www-s.acm.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sigmusic-l
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >
>>> > >> SIGMusic-l mailing list
>>> > >
>>> > >> SIGMusic-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >> https://www-s.acm.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sigmusic-l
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
>
>
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-- 
Alex Paul
Forinti Consulting
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